Comments on: Source or package install? http://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/ The Journal Of A Linux Sysadmin Sat, 31 Jul 2010 13:48:55 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: - Marius -http://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/comment-page-1/#comment-127366 - Marius - Wed, 06 Feb 2008 10:37:18 +0000 http://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/#comment-127366 djatlantic: this was also the idea of my post, that you can choose what is best for you... I still think that it is best if you are installing software across several (hundreds maybe) of systems, to package up the compiled software and deploy them easily. This helps maintenance, and updates also. djatlantic: this was also the idea of my post, that you can choose what is best for you… I still think that it is best if you are installing software across several (hundreds maybe) of systems, to package up the compiled software and deploy them easily. This helps maintenance, and updates also.

]]> By: djatlantichttp://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/comment-page-1/#comment-127339 djatlantic Wed, 06 Feb 2008 06:12:30 +0000 http://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/#comment-127339 Hi, Khai. It is just easy as how I installed it:rm -rf /usr/local/apache-2.4.8 rm /usr/local/apache2It could not be any easier. The key is planning. Put the config files in /usr/local/etc/yourapp dir then by installing the binaries and related stuffs in /usr/local/yourapp-version# and make a soft link to the latest version I just removed older versions or just keep them around.Besides that, compiling and installing from sources is a good skill because it does not matter you use Ubuntu/Debian or Red Hat/Fedora/CentOS/Mandrake or even Solaris and even *BSD, as long as you have accesses to the right tools such as compilers and Make tools among other things, you can always compile and install the software. If anybody had become specialized in installing Deb or RPM packages, then how would they transfer that knowledges when they are working with a new distro or even Unix variants and there are no such familiar Deb or RPM software packages.When you are talking about fast then installing from packages beat installing from source hands down but for anything else I would venture to say that installing from sources gives the system admin an edge.Installing from package is ideal for end users but for system admins then the advantage lose its appeal.I really hate it when there are just simply so much interdependencies between packages, you remove or upgrade one and risk messing up other parts. Debian is much better in resolving or eliminating these issues but it is not 100% applicable all the times.I have my shares of bad experiences with installing software from packages so unless there is no other ways then I usually stick with the sources.My 2 cents. Hi, Khai. It is just easy as how I installed it:

rm -rf /usr/local/apache-2.4.8
rm /usr/local/apache2

It could not be any easier. The key is planning. Put the config files in /usr/local/etc/yourapp dir then by installing the binaries and related stuffs in /usr/local/yourapp-version# and make a soft link to the latest version I just removed older versions or just keep them around.

Besides that, compiling and installing from sources is a good skill because it does not matter you use Ubuntu/Debian or Red Hat/Fedora/CentOS/Mandrake or even Solaris and even *BSD, as long as you have accesses to the right tools such as compilers and Make tools among other things, you can always compile and install the software. If anybody had become specialized in installing Deb or RPM packages, then how would they transfer that knowledges when they are working with a new distro or even Unix variants and there are no such familiar Deb or RPM software packages.

When you are talking about fast then installing from packages beat installing from source hands down but for anything else I would venture to say that installing from sources gives the system admin an edge.

Installing from package is ideal for end users but for system admins then the advantage lose its appeal.

I really hate it when there are just simply so much interdependencies between packages, you remove or upgrade one and risk messing up other parts. Debian is much better in resolving or eliminating these issues but it is not 100% applicable all the times.

I have my shares of bad experiences with installing software from packages so unless there is no other ways then I usually stick with the sources.

My 2 cents.

]]> By: leavehttp://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/comment-page-1/#comment-124940 leave Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:03:41 +0000 http://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/#comment-124940 khai: only if there's no "make deinstall" target in makefile :) khai: only if there’s no “make deinstall” target in makefile :)

]]> By: khaihttp://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/comment-page-1/#comment-124937 khai Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:53:04 +0000 http://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/#comment-124937 There is one more disadvantage of compiling programs: It's much harder to fully uninstall them if you need to. There is one more disadvantage of compiling programs:
It’s much harder to fully uninstall them if you need to.

]]> By: - Marius -http://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/comment-page-1/#comment-124402 - Marius - Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:18:00 +0000 http://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/#comment-124402 Pavel: this sucks... If there would be a real competition this would never happen. Pavel: this sucks… If there would be a real competition this would never happen.

]]> By: leavehttp://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/comment-page-1/#comment-124391 leave Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:32:31 +0000 http://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/#comment-124391 Marius, you wrote: >>I also live in a poor country and know how things are, but here competition created a great thing: fast and cheap broadband internet for everyone.heh, there's a monopoly in telecommunications in Belarus: the only company (Beltelecom) owns all 1-st level uplinks and resells it to the rest of ISPs at a fixed price (rather high) - so 1Mbit full unlim. comes at approx. $800-1000/month It's really awful :(>>this just show even more that you were able to find a solution even in your situationI HAD to find this awesome solutions cause it was a critical task from my CIO - and since that time I hate SWSoft and Plesk :) Marius, you wrote:
>>I also live in a poor country and know how things are, but here competition created a great thing: fast and cheap broadband internet for everyone.

heh, there’s a monopoly in telecommunications in Belarus: the only company (Beltelecom) owns all 1-st level uplinks and resells it to the rest of ISPs at a fixed price (rather high) – so 1Mbit full unlim. comes at approx. $800-1000/month
It’s really awful :(

>>this just show even more that you were able to find a solution even in your situation

I HAD to find this awesome solutions cause it was a critical task from my CIO –
and since that time I hate SWSoft and Plesk :)

]]> By: djatlantichttp://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/comment-page-1/#comment-124334 djatlantic Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:54:35 +0000 http://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/#comment-124334 Well, compiling from sources is great. I usually installed the requirements from deb or rpm packages just to satisfy the software that I would like to install. Once all the requirements are in placed, I would compile a software from sources like web server or anything that require optimizations and special security considerations. The final step would be trying to use checkinstall to create either a rpm or deb package and install this newly minted package. I would then be able to install this very same package in other servers too. However, this one might not work 100% of the time but still it is a viable option for installing from "sources".Anything critical software like Apache, Samba, Openldap and etc should be compiled from sources and I would say that updating these are fairly easy. You just need to have the appropriate ways to do things:ln -s apache-2.4.6 /usr/local/apache2compile a new one:rm /usr/local/apache2 ln -s apache-2.4.8 /usr/local/apache2copy or link the config files to the new location.Just by using this, I have a few working versions of the same software and I certainly can switch back and forth among them. I think once you get used to the concepts then installing from sources would not be so intimidating.Besides that, you really learn so much more of the piece of software you are installing because you have to read the installation instructions, learn and decide what appropriate options to use. I do not think you can learn as much by installing from deb/rpm packages.My 2 cents. Well, compiling from sources is great. I usually installed the requirements from deb or rpm packages just to satisfy the software that I would like to install. Once all the requirements are in placed, I would compile a software from sources like web server or anything that require optimizations and special security considerations.

The final step would be trying to use checkinstall to create either a rpm or deb package and install this newly minted package. I would then be able to install this very same package in other servers too. However, this one might not work 100% of the time but still it is a viable option for installing from “sources”.

Anything critical software like Apache, Samba, Openldap and etc should be compiled from sources and I would say that updating these are fairly easy. You just need to have the appropriate ways to do things:

ln -s apache-2.4.6 /usr/local/apache2

compile a new one:

rm /usr/local/apache2
ln -s apache-2.4.8 /usr/local/apache2

copy or link the config files to the new location.

Just by using this, I have a few working versions of the same software and I certainly can switch back and forth among them. I think once you get used to the concepts then installing from sources would not be so intimidating.

Besides that, you really learn so much more of the piece of software you are installing because you have to read the installation instructions, learn and decide what appropriate options to use. I do not think you can learn as much by installing from deb/rpm packages.

My 2 cents.

]]> By: - Marius -http://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/comment-page-1/#comment-124324 - Marius - Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:26:03 +0000 http://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/#comment-124324 Pavel: I understand your point, and this just show even more that you were able to find a solution even in your situation. About your internet experience I am sorry to hear that... I also live in a poor country and know how things are, but here competition created a great thing: fast and cheap broadband internet for everyone. :-) Pavel: I understand your point, and this just show even more that you were able to find a solution even in your situation. About your internet experience I am sorry to hear that… I also live in a poor country and know how things are, but here competition created a great thing: fast and cheap broadband internet for everyone. :-)

]]> By: Stevehttp://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/comment-page-1/#comment-124322 Steve Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:10:47 +0000 http://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/#comment-124322 If you use FreeBSD and the Ports system, or build your own RPMs, the disadvantages of the packages are pretty much mitigated. This does of course bring back at least one of the disadvantages of the building from source method, namely that it can be time consuming, but considering you only build the package once then distribute it to multiple systems, it's not too bad. If you use FreeBSD and the Ports system, or build your own RPMs, the disadvantages of the packages are pretty much mitigated. This does of course bring back at least one of the disadvantages of the building from source method, namely that it can be time consuming, but considering you only build the package once then distribute it to multiple systems, it’s not too bad.

]]> By: leavehttp://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/comment-page-1/#comment-124318 leave Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:54:19 +0000 http://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/#comment-124318 Hi. You wrote: >> And if it does it might not have for your distribution, and in this case you will be force to compile it from sources or help the community by creating a new package.Sorry, but I don't agree with this point of view. Indeed, very often (approx. in 90% occasions) you can simply install, for example, an RPM package from Fedora at a Mandriva box. I myself had such experience while installing Plesk at a RHEL4.0 - this system has rpms from Mandriva, SuSE, Fedora - and it works fine! And another example: my home PC is running Mandriva 2007, and my Internet channel is narrow and traffic is expensive (I live in Belarus) so I have to install many different packages from Debian DVDs after converting them with alien. Yes, I know that I'd better use Debian but my wife doesn't like it :) Hi.
You wrote:
>> And if it does it might not have for your distribution, and in this case you will be force to compile it from sources or help the community by creating a new package.

Sorry, but I don’t agree with this point of view. Indeed, very often (approx. in 90% occasions) you can simply install, for example, an RPM package from Fedora at a Mandriva box.
I myself had such experience while installing Plesk at a RHEL4.0 – this system has rpms from Mandriva, SuSE, Fedora – and it works fine!
And another example: my home PC is running Mandriva 2007, and my Internet channel is narrow and traffic is expensive (I live in Belarus) so I have to install many different packages from Debian DVDs after converting them with alien. Yes, I know that I’d better use Debian but my wife doesn’t like it :)

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